[Sleepy52]

OK - I can cast a fair 15-20' left curve (I'm right-handed) by overpowering a sidearm cast, but I am stumped on getting a consistent right curve. What I'm trying is to underpower a sidearm cast, so that the loop fails to complete closing... 1/5 even remotely close.

Any suggestions on a better approach (I suck at overpowering a backhand), feel cue, or anything that'll help me get this down?

TIA

[flyvet]

That is not unusual Sleepy. I consider the underpowered cast harder to dial in accurately than the overpowered curve cast. The most helpful hint I have found for those having trouble is to tell them to drop the rod quicker or sooner and with more conviction. As soon as the line is curved out there where you want it, immediately drop the rod, that will drop the line in the right place. It is a useful cast when casting on an open river with current moving from left to right and you want slack upstream of the fly and used with mending. When in that situation I find myself a lot of times using an across the body cast (rod tip to the left of my body) and using an overpowered cast again. With overpowered curved casts you can really put a sharp curve in the end of the line by popping back on the rod tip just before the loop unrolls. I think curve casts are much better than reach casts because the line is not as straight as in reach casts and the leader and end of line are more directly upstream of the fly.

[Peddler]

Have Dave Duffy come back and show you how it's done!

I asked Bruce Richards to demonstrate curve casts at a casting pond a few years ago. He did a beautiful curve left, when I asked him to show me a curve right he said it's something that must be practiced.
I did the same to Bob Clouser at the same show after the crowds thinned down. Again a fantastic left curve, when I asked him to do a curve right he simply said to do an overpowered side-arm cast using your left arm!

Not long after asking the above two gents, Duffy did a wonderful job of explaining and demonstrating it by using wrist rotation in an overhead cast. Still, I agree with Mr. Richards... it is something that really has to be practiced.

I find it hard to get repeatability using the underpowered side-arm cast (only Mac Brown can do that!) and so end up most times overpowering with an across the left shoulder cast as flyvet mentioned or using the wrist rotation technique.

Very handy stuff in clear rivers like the SoHo!

[Silvercreek]

Originally Posted by Sleepy52

....I am stumped on getting a consistent right curve.....Any suggestions on a better approach....

Sleepy,

There are two standard methods of making a curve cast. They are both described by John Randolph in this Fly Fisherman Magazine Article.

However, the corkscrew curve cast is the one I will be practicing this summer. The cast you want is the inverse corkscrew curve cast that Jason does at the end of the second video.

I suggest you get Jason Borger's Book, Nature of Fly Casting which describes the corkscrew curve with drawings and detailed instructions on pp 184-186. It is much better than the short description Jason gives in the videos above. Without Jason's book it is easy to miss exactly what is going on in the cast.

[Kent]

Here's an alternate approach to throwing the under-powered curve - it gives more control and let's me see where the cast will land.

_

[flyvet]

I agree with all the comments above from you other casting geeks. Yeah, Mac has a great touch, when I told him about not being very happy with my accuracy with the underpowered casts he said that is his favorite fishing cast because it is less tiring. We all agree practice is what it takes and I have been slack about that lately. Whether you use a pure sidearm cast or more vertical it seems the two keys are to impart a curving path or tilted loop (not perfectly vertical) and learn how to kill the stop (that is where I found that throwing the rod tip down dramatically helped) Silver, I too intend to work on the corkscrew cast this year, using the sidearm and quick kill approach works for short casts but the corkscrew appears to be useful for much longer casts.

[Silvercreek]

Originally Posted by Kent

Here's an alternate approach to throwing the under-powered curve - it gives more control and let's me see where the cast will land.

I think Kent has a great explanation of a more vertical underpowered cast. I especially like the photos and illustration.

The top view illustration showing the rod tip path shows why the curve lands as it does. The rod tip path forms an arc ending pointing to the left even though the rod is tilted to the right side. If it were thrown with normal power, the cast would curve to the left. Because it is underpowered, it the loop never extends to the leader and it forms a curve to the right which is the unextended collapsed loop and trailing leader.

As I look at the photos, the trailing fly line seems to be below below the loop. Unless it is angle from which the photos were taken, it looks like you are throwing a combination of a underpowered curve with the upward angle. Look how low the end of the fly line is on photo A4 compared to where the loop is. If it is at that upward angle, you have excellent control to be able to form a smooth fly line curve without pudding of the end of the fly line at the loop.

Are you really throwing it up or is it an optical illusion? Did you delay the forward cast to allow the backcast to drop? I'm trying to understand the vertical dimension of the cast as well as the horizontal curve portion of the cast.

I would think that in the wind, you would tilt the rod even more to right, lowering the plane of the cast to make it more accurate. If the cast is low to high, a tailing wind would extend the loop and make control of the curve very difficult and a head wind would be easier I would think.

I am interested in Kent's thoughts about the following alternate solution instead of the right curve.

I am assuming that I understand what you are trying to do. If I don't, then my apologies to you. For the cast that you are doing from the position the cast is being made, I find myself using a combination of a puddle cast with a reach mend. The puddle form slack at the leader as you note, but the left reach keeps the fly line from falling over the fish which I am assuming is upstream and to the right side of the caster. It is a cast I am better at than a right underpowered curve.

A puddle alone without the reach mend could place the fly line over the fish as you note in the post. For me, I want the slack at the leader upstream of the fish.

Actually, I search for any reason not to do a right curve cast. Maybe that is why I need so much practice because I use it so little.

My first choice for a casting position would be to sneak upstream of the fish. I think a slack line cast down to the fish with a parachute cast or a reach parachute cast would be more accurate. However, I have found myself in situations where this is not possible because of deep water or dangerous water in the best casting position for my skills.

Anyhow, your explanation is very good. Congrats.

[streamer]

Try this:

Make a standard sidearm casting stroke, but stop the rod a beat before you normally would to make a straight cast. As the loop begins to form, continue the original path of the cast until the rod is pointing straight ahead of you. This will feel like you are sliding the rod out from under the fly line, which in a way, you are. It will cause the cast to be "incomplete", and the fly will land off to the right of your leader/tippet.

Practice aiming this cast beyond and to the left of your target so that the drift brings the fly down into the zone that you're looking to drift through.

Streamer

[Sleepy52]

LOL! So many wonderful ideas and approaches! So many that seek to send me over to the dark side of subverting that nice linear stroke that I worked so hard to build .

My two major applications for curves are on SMB rivers to cast to shoreline hides and allow deep flies time to get down before my target pocket and for targeting cruising fish on the flats, allowing me to retrieve more directly across their noses.

Interesting that my first major test will be on Bahamas flats at the end of next month (although I'm looking for some Little T time before then) - in the wind, I may find underpowering easy and overpowering tough .

Giving the torrents falling from the sky, I haven't been able to try any of these ideas yet. In my gear-head brain, the "corkscrew" approach makes the best fit, but I'm a sidearm caster when the wind wails - I guess I'll find out!

Much thanks for the responses! This is exactly why I love the folks who hang out here :)

[Silvercreek]

Originally Posted by streamer

Try this:

Make a standard sidearm casting stroke, but stop the rod a beat before you normally would to make a straight cast. As the loop begins to form, continue the original path of the cast until the rod is pointing straight ahead of you. This will feel like you are sliding the rod out from under the fly line, which in a way, you are. It will cause the cast to be "incomplete", and the fly will land off to the right of your leader/tippet.

Practice aiming this cast beyond and to the left of your target so that the drift brings the fly down into the zone that you're looking to drift through.

Streamer

Thanks Streamer.

I think your method would be easier to control than the standard sidearm unpowered cast.

I think I know why your cast works as it does and I like it!

I think by pushing the rod forward after the stop, the loop formation loses it anchor point at the rod tip and the cast collapses. Basically you are performing a puddle-cast in the horizontal plane.

If you were to make your cast in the vertical plane (overhead) and stop the rod earlier, the loop would go in an upward angle. Then you continue the rod motion forward and down, and that kills the cast. In the vertical plane, gravity causes the loop and leader to collapse on itself into a puddle.

With a true puddle cast you would delay the rod motion to get the loop formation more into the area of the leader, but I think the same principle is at work for your cast. But in the sidearm or horizontal plane of your cast, the loop falls down retaining it's shape as a right curve. I would think that if you powered the cast too much, you could even let some line shoot help bleed off some of that extra energy.

I've never thought of doing that for a right curve. I'm learning a lot more ways to make a right curve. Thank you for the suggestion.